Melissa Lou | DaVita, Inc.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Success in our profession, like so many others, often comes down to who you know rather than what you know. The more years I spend practicing law, the more I realize that this profession is not necessarily a meritocracy and that being a smart, hard-working, talented lawyer is not synonymous with success and professional advancement. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with an emphasis on networking, I do worry that it systemically benefits those who come from certain socioeconomic and racial backgrounds, for example, to the exclusion and detriment of those who do not. I would tell both my pre-law school and pre-pandemic self to be gentle on myself and to give myself the same grace that I would allow others. I think we tend to be most critical of ourselves.
What advice would you give your pre-pandemic self? Your pre-law school self?
I would tell my pre-law school self to remember that careers are long, so give yourself permission to take some chances and know that unexpected twists and turns can open doors and lead you to really wonderful experiences. I would tell my pre-pandemic (and pre-motherhood!) self that it's ok to not be perfect in every aspect of your life at every single moment, that taking time for self-care is not only acceptable but necessary, and that your priorities are your own and no one else's to judge.
Fay Matsukage | Doida Crow Legal LLC
Tell us about the most impactful person in your career so far.
My father. He graduated from the University of Chicago back in 1952 with MBA and JD degrees. Race/ethnicity never came up in the conversation. He always told me that I was good enough to make it - whatever I chose to be—although he told me that I was going to law school from age 9.
What advice would you give your pre-pandemic self? Your pre-law school self?
Advice to my pre-law school self: Don't compare yourself to others. Each person has his/her own unique talents, strengths, and qualities. Embrace who you are.
Laurie Choi | BBG Construction Law
Tell us about the most impactful person in your career so far.
It's hard to narrow down to just one person because so many people have made meaningful impacts on my career. I am lucky to have worked with law firms and clients who value and appreciate a diverse viewpoint, and specifically those that make a conscious effort to elevate diverse voices. Just as important - I am grateful to have the friendship and support of other attorneys of color and female attorneys who provide fellowship, insight, and leadership.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Equating long hours and high billable hours with success. Being a great lawyer does not require drowning in work and billable hours. Part-time/flex lawyers can be smart, respected, and successful too!
Clark Yeh | Assistant Counsel at Western Union
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
I'm most proud of being able to pivot to a new career path (law) after working in the business world for over 10 years (primarily in ecommerce). Starting over in a completely different career and entering law school with a one-year old daughter was quite a challenge. I didn't know many lawyers prior to law school (and had never met another AAPI attorney prior to law school). It can be hard to be what you don't see. Fortunately, I've been able to cross paths with a number of amazing professionals. I'm grateful to my mentors and network for their invaluable role in my career progression. Most of all, I'm grateful for an incredibly supportive wife who has supported me throughout this meandering journey!
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Our profession places a premium on working a very high number of hours. Yes, we should work hard, and this profession provides opportunities to be very well rewarded. However, at some point, exceeding healthy boundaries can result in unhealthy outcomes (as I've seen too frequently in our profession).
What advice would you give your pre-pandemic self? Your pre-law school self?
Success should be personally defined and not measured by external standards. It's a profession that can be plenty demanding without us chasing after goals that aren't personally meaningful. Each of us is in the best position to know what our own success should look like. Relatedly, career progression in law is often non-linear. No need to focus on a single path to success.
Melora Kim Sun Kyung Bentz | Middle Path Mediation, LLC
Tell us about the most impactful person in your career so far.
I am grateful for all of my supporters over the years - and thinking about my answer led me to list, easily, 5 incredible women who made significant impacts on my career. But if I had to name the most impactful person in my career so far, I would say my Mother. She instilled in me an appreciation for learning, hard work, and community service which has impacted me in an immeasurable way. I remember going to visit my mother for her 80th birthday - I imagined taking her out for a fancy brunch but she had other plans. We went and delivered her Meals on Wheels route (which she did for a decade and only recently stopped). To be honest, I wasn't surprised. That is classic for my Mom.
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
The most difficult hurdle I have overcome is having taken a break from my legal career. I had a significant physical health setback and endured physical pain for years. Sitting and standing, just being, just existing, was painful. I underwent major surgery and worked hard for over a year to recover my strength. My saving grace was my yoga practice, which I delved into in order to prepare for and recover from surgery.
Many years later, after dabbling in legal work part-time (but largely focused on teaching yoga in Denver), I reinvented my legal career and currently do work that I enjoy. What stuck were the areas of law that I've always been passionate about: helping people to deal with conflict whether it be in the criminal justice system, the civil courts, in relationships, and in the workplace.
Being multi-racial is all I've ever known, so it's hard to say that my identity complicated this hurdle in my career. I certainly do not think that it helped that I am easily perceived as Asian, a woman, and earned my law degree in Ohio. Despite being a hard worker, quick learner, and chronic overachiever, the list of rejection letters that I've received over the years could cover my office walls.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
I would love to see the majority demographic in power, that is, white people, step up to the plate and become more vocal and active in the inclusion of BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ people in the legal field. I would like to see us embrace our differences and give agency to the disenfranchised. I would like to see diverse perspectives and experiences from those on the Bench, those at the trial and mediation tables, in the jury box, and in Board rooms. I would like to see those of us who have been playing small, who have tolerated stereotypes and micro-aggressions, and being overlooked for opportunities - to blossom into powerful and effective voices for change. We can do this together. "One of the many concepts that drew me to yoga was the practice of savasana, Sanskrit for corpse pose. The posture, or pose, cultivates conscious surrender. As lawyers know, surrender is no easy feat. For many of us, it goes against our nature. My advice to myself comes from the American Tibetan Buddhist nun, Pema Chodron:
What advice would you give your pre-pandemic self? Your pre-law school self?
To be fully alive, fully human, and completely awake is to be continually thrown out of the nest. To live fully is to be always in no-man’s-land, to experience each moment as completely new and fresh. To live is to be willing to die over and over again. And I would add "keep practicing."
Thank you, truly, for the opportunity to share my Voice!
Marika Rietsema Ball | Holland & Hart, LLP
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
Failing the Bar, trying again, and talking openly about it. As a BIPOC woman, this can be stigmatizing and isolating - there is already a constant feeling that you must be perfect to compete with your counterparts. So the failure is hard to begin with, but its even harder to admit to it. But I believe that admission and discussion is important to future generations of lawyers and law students - so they know that failure isn't and doesn't have to be the end.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
A greater and less-stigmatizing discussion around mental health.
What advice would you give your pre-pandemic self? Your pre law school self?
(To my pre-pandemic self) "It won't be over in two weeks, buy the toilet paper."
Niki Schwab | Koenig, Oelsner, Taylor, Schoenfeld & Gaddis PC
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
Tell us about the most impactful person in your career so far.
Happily, I've had the opportunity to get to know many attorneys who have imparted bits of wisdom and have supported me during the eight years of my legal career, but there's one piece of advice I received from one of my partners in my first post-clerkship job that I have carried with me every day. When I was struggling with drafting an agreement that didn't quite fit into any of the boxes I was familiar with, Jay Jester told me: "It's your agreement. It can say whatever you damn well please." I don't think it was necessarily profound, but the knowledge that I didn't need to be restricted by parameters of what I was familiar with was freeing. Any time I look at a document and I'm not sure where to start, I come back to this piece of advice -- I think about what I need to accomplish, and then I draft accordingly.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Glorifying and praising overworking. Lawyers often hold working nights and weekends, billing upwards of 200 hours per month, and being at their clients' beck and call in high regard. I don't think it's healthy, and you can still be a great advocate when you're working reasonable hours (maybe even better, because you won't be so tired).
Cristina Uribe Reyes | Uribe Reyes Law
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
I am most proud of deciding to go solo and opening up my own firm. I never considered being a business owner and therefore never took any classes related to business, finances, or marketing. I was confident in my knowledge of the law in my field but terrified about the rules around trust accounts, business management, accounting, and marketing. And yet, I had no other option because I wanted to control my own narrative and work. "I want to be seen. There have been countless instances throughout my career where I've been confused for an interpreter, paralegal, or even client instead of an attorney...by judges, court security, opposing counsel, victim advocates, and court personnel. It is already difficult to navigate this profession as a minority and my own issues with imposter syndrome, but it makes it worse when you are constantly needing to prove to others that you are in fact an attorney.
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Diversity trainings aren't enough. We need more active efforts from law schools, law firms, and the bar in general to recruit and retain more diverse individuals." "In law school there were several talks and sessions about how lawyers should present themselves, especially women. I remember being told that we shouldn't wear statement jewelry and that our overall appearance should not be too big or colorful in order to not distract from our words.
What do you wish that you could talk to your professional colleagues about that is currently considered unprofessional?
As a Latina and someone who typically likes to have long nails filled with nail art and someone who chooses to not wear pearls but rather statement pieces this was hard. I thought I would once again have to hide in order to fit in, in order to be professional. For some time I did keep my nails shorter and less colorful and toned down my jewelry. But then I chose not to. I chose to be unapologetically and authentically myself. I can say for certain my nail art has not affected the results I have obtained for my clients."
Anna Martinez | Martinez Law Colorado LLC
Tell us about the most impactful person in your career so far.
There has never been just one impactful person in my career path. Rather, I have had different people come into my life that really shaped part of my career as an attorney. Chief Justice Mary Mullarkey was profoundly influential in my early career. She encouraged me to stay in Colorado to practice (I had originally planned to return to New Mexico to continue practicing Federal Indian Law with a firm in Albuquerque). She also saw something in me that I did not yet see in myself - she saw a trial lawyer. With her help, I found the perfect place to start my career headed by a woman trial lawyer. The next several years of my career in trial practice was shaped by the generous mentorship of Ret. Judge Liz Starrs. She taught me how to persevere with grace and dignity in the toughest situations. She also had a sort of medical school approach to trial practice - see one, do one, teach one. I felt so much more confident as a young lawyer because of the skills she imparted with her teaching and mentorship. Recently, the most influential people in my career have been two former colleagues of mine, DezaRae LaCrue and Jennifer Torres. Both of these trial lawyers taught me the value of collaboration and support to achieve success. It was a privilege to try cases with both of them, and refine my style through their support and encouragement.
What hurdle have you overcome in your career so far that you are most proud of? How was that complicated by your identity, if at all?
"Motherhood isn't exactly a hurdle per se, but it not necessarily compatible all of the time with the demands of being a full-time trial lawyer. I don't think I really understood what I was in for both personally and professionally. I had a lot of difficulty articulating my needs because I felt so guilty that my work was now number two in my life to my family (yes, I know how that sounds). I felt so needy asking folks for extensions to answer discovery or motions because I simply didn't have the hours in the day to take care of this new person in my life, and do my job in the manner I felt it could be done. Some lawyers were totally understanding (usually parents), and others made snarky or rude remarks, but acquiesced. I just had to learn to stop apologizing for having more than one occupation in my life, and to readjust my expectations of others as well.
The pandemic brought a lot of this conflict into relief once more for me. Though my child is no longer a baby, I was back to apologizing about having more than one job (i.e., my career, and being a mother). The pandemic meant more conflict between my job and my many new roles while confined to my home: school teacher, chef, 3 ring circus of entertainment for my child, and IT professional.
Now that I have decided to go into practice on my own terms as a solo, I am looking forward to finally shaping my career around my non-work life."
What is something in our profession that you wish to see changed?
Drinking culture. There is a push beginning in law school to socialize around alcohol, or use alcohol as a means of reward. As lawyers, our profession endorses alcohol in all aspects of our practice -- we gift alcohol to clients or each other for special occasions; we arrange happy hours to mingle; and we often use alcohol as a means of unwinding or relaxing after stressful days, even keeping alcohol in our offices and sharing a drink with colleagues. A little over a year ago I decided to participate in Dry January as a means of reflecting on my alcohol consumption. As a result, I started to view alcohol in a completely different way; I could more plainly see how often I consumed alcohol, and under what circumstances. I decided to keep going with my abstention experiment, which has really lasted a lot longer than I initially planned for. However, I am happy to report that I don't feel like I am missing out, and I feel a lot better today than I did a year ago. I really would like to see our profession reflect on our culture of alcohol consumption and reconsider old habits. It would be nice to offer alternatives to happy hours, or emphasize offering non-alcoholic (and tasty) beverages at our gatherings. Lastly, I don't think we should shame each other about alcohol consumption, but we should also not shame those who abstain.